Reformed Theology Is there inequality in submission? Charity online and ESS.  Calvinism

Is there inequality in submission? Charity online and ESS.

Reformed Theology Is there inequality in submission? Charity online and ESS.  Calvinism
Is there inequality in submission? Charity online and ESS.

Why being charitable with your opponent's view is an essential for Christians.. And ESS.

In response to a recent article, I could have posted something like this. I think you will quickly see why this is unhelpful for a Christian debate.


Incendiary post

Mason thinks women are inferior.

A logical outworking of his theology shows that he does:

1) He believes that if there is submission, then there is inequality.

He analyzes this quote of Wayne Grudem as supporting a metaphysic of 'inequality of equals'.

Wayne Grudem writes the following in defense of this metaphysical principle,

[…]the idea of headship and submission within a personal relationship did not begin with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in 1987[…] No, the idea of headship and submission existed before creation. It began in the relationship between the Father and Son in the Trinity. The Father has eternally had a leadership role, an authority to initiate and direct, that the Son does not have. Similarly, the Holy Spirit is subject to both the Father and Son and plays yet a different role in creation and in the work of salvation.

When did the idea of headship and submission begin then? The idea of headship and submission never began! It has always existed in the eternal nature of God Himself. And in this most basic of all authority relationships, authority is not based on gifts or ability (for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal in attributes and perfections). It is just there. […] Within the being of God, you have both equality and authority.[10] ~Grudem

The metaphysic of inequality of equals is presumed to be grounded in the Trinity. The illogic of the principle, and the near incomprehensible nature of the metaphysic itself, is supposedly justified by shrouding it in the ineffable and mysterious nature of the Trinity. ~Mason

So even though Grudem is not advocating for a metaphysical principle of 'inequality of equals', Mason sees submission as just that. Mason proposes that (A) = submission means inequality.

2) He believes that women are to submit to their husbands.

I still call myself complementarian. ~Mason

So Mason believes in the basic principles of complementarianism, which requires a wife to submit to her husband. (B) = complementarianism means submission of the wife to her husband.

3) Therefore, by logical outworking of the assertions A+B, Mason believes that wives are unequal to their husbands.

If (B) complementarianism means submission and (A) submission means inequality, then (C) complementarianism means inequality.

This means that Mason believes that women are unequal (ie. inferior) to their husbands.

  • If you deny (A), then his recent post about ESS falls completely apart and he owes an apology.

  • If you deny (B), then Mason is not a complementarian.


Now, I know that Mason does not believe this. I would not actually accuse him of this in a million years. I simply post this to show what happens when you're uncharitable with your opponent's views.

Compare this post which says the same thing, but in a charitable way.


Charitable post

Mason, how would you describe equality within a marriage? If there is submission of a wife to a husband, is there inequality?

From your recent post on ESS, it seems that you would categorize submission in the Godhead as 'inequality of equals'. Why would that not apply in human relationships?


… and I could go on to show the same logical outworking of statements that he made as I did in post #1. But you see that post #1 unnecessarily sets the opponent on edge. It divides people. It's meant to tear down, not build others up. Not iron sharpening iron, but acting as the destroyer.

When you are uncharitable, you're giving into self-righteousness, attempting to demolish your opponents, and while attempting to make yourself look good, in reality, you end up looking like a fool and/or a bully.

Christians are called to charity. This subreddit is built on loving each other, being charitable, and not tearing down. Let's return to charity online (and offline, of course) as Christ would have us.

Why being charitable with your opponent's view is an essential for Christians.. And ESS.

In response to a recent article, I could have posted something like this. I think you will quickly see why this is unhelpful for a Christian debate.


Incendiary post

Mason thinks women are inferior.

A logical outworking of his theology shows that he does:

1) He believes that if there is submission, then there is inequality.

He analyzes this quote of Wayne Grudem as supporting a metaphysic of 'inequality of equals'.

Wayne Grudem writes the following in defense of this metaphysical principle,

[…]the idea of headship and submission within a personal relationship did not begin with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in 1987[…] No, the idea of headship and submission existed before creation. It began in the relationship between the Father and Son in the Trinity. The Father has eternally had a leadership role, an authority to initiate and direct, that the Son does not have. Similarly, the Holy Spirit is subject to both the Father and Son and plays yet a different role in creation and in the work of salvation.

When did the idea of headship and submission begin then? The idea of headship and submission never began! It has always existed in the eternal nature of God Himself. And in this most basic of all authority relationships, authority is not based on gifts or ability (for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal in attributes and perfections). It is just there. […] Within the being of God, you have both equality and authority.[10] ~Grudem

The metaphysic of inequality of equals is presumed to be grounded in the Trinity. The illogic of the principle, and the near incomprehensible nature of the metaphysic itself, is supposedly justified by shrouding it in the ineffable and mysterious nature of the Trinity. ~Mason

So even though Grudem is not advocating for a metaphysical principle of 'inequality of equals', Mason sees submission as just that. Mason proposes that (A) = submission means inequality.

2) He believes that women are to submit to their husbands.

I still call myself complementarian. ~Mason

So Mason believes in the basic principles of complementarianism, which requires a wife to submit to her husband. (B) = complementarianism means submission of the wife to her husband.

3) Therefore, by logical outworking of the assertions A+B, Mason believes that wives are unequal to their husbands.

If (B) complementarianism means submission and (A) submission means inequality, then (C) complementarianism means inequality.

This means that Mason believes that women are unequal (ie. inferior) to their husbands.

  • If you deny (A), then his recent post about ESS falls completely apart and he owes an apology.

  • If you deny (B), then Mason is not a complementarian.


Now, I know that Mason does not believe this. I would not actually accuse him of this in a million years. I simply post this to show what happens when you're uncharitable with your opponent's views.

Compare this post which says the same thing, but in a charitable way.


Charitable post

Mason, how would you describe equality within a marriage? If there is submission of a wife to a husband, is there inequality?

From your recent post on ESS, it seems that you would categorize submission in the Godhead as 'inequality of equals'. Why would that not apply in human relationships?


… and I could go on to show the same logical outworking of statements that he made as I did in post #1. But you see that post #1 unnecessarily sets the opponent on edge. It divides people. It's meant to tear down, not build others up. Not iron sharpening iron, but acting as the destroyer.

When you are uncharitable, you're giving into self-righteousness, attempting to demolish your opponents, and while attempting to make yourself look good, in reality, you end up looking like a fool and/or a bully.

Christians are called to charity. This subreddit is built on loving each other, being charitable, and not tearing down. Let's return to charity online (and offline, of course) as Christ would have us.

“>Link
Submitted March 08, 2017 at 06:54AM by terevos2